Inspiration

“General Magic” Directors & Producers Speak with Kenzie Academy Students

“General Magic” Directors & Producers Speak with Kenzie Academy Students

In each Software Engineering cohort at Kenzie Academy, students watch the film “General Magic.” The documentary follows the story of a 1989 Silicon Valley tech startup called General Magic which introduced many of the ideas that now dominate the tech industry. For example, the team at General Magic shipped the first “personal communicator” or what we know now as the “smartphone.”  

In December, Kenzie students had the opportunity to speak with several producers, directors, and former General Magic staff during a special Q&A event. You can check out the hour-long discussion to learn more about the making of the film and the company on our Vimeo. This Q&A features: 

  • Matt Maude, Director & Producer
  • Sarah Kerruish, Director & Producer
  • Veronica Miles, Impact Producer
  • Michael Stern, Former General Counsel for General Magic and Writer for the documentary
  • Dee Gardetti, Former Head of HR for General Magic

During the insightful discussion, Kenzie students learned more about bringing ideas to life, the trust economy, the process of telling the General Magic story, and so much more. Read a transcript of the Q&A below, or watch the interview here: 

General Magic Q&A Transcript 

Joe Kaufeld:

Recording now. So, first off, joining us today is Matt Maude, one of the directors and producers. Hopefully we should also see Sarah Kerruish, who should be joining us shortly as the other director and producer of the film that, at least most of you watched yesterday. Then we also have Dee Gardetti, the former head of HR from General Magic who’s joined us today. And Mike Stern, the former legal counsel, and as I understand it, also one of the writers for the documentary is here today. We should also potentially, hopefully, see Veronica, who is one of the amazing staff people who’s helped us pull this all together, and has a fairly unique experience, both helping distribute the film and working with people like me, helping to show it off. And that’s super exciting. So anyway, we have all of these wonderful people, and to all of you welcome to Kenzie Academy, we’re so happy that you could join us.

Joe Kaufeld:

So ground rules as we get started, then if you have any questions, then I ask that you shoved them in the speaker questions channel on the Kenzie Town Slack. That’s what we’ll be monitoring. If we end up calling you for your question, then please unmute, make sure your camera is on so that you can ask the question. If possible, please specify who the question is for. If it’s for everybody, that’s great. If it’s for a specific role, like, “Hey, I have a question for the directors.” Then that would be great too. But really, we’ll just wing it. The goal is a friendly conversation. There’s really no agenda. There’s no super secret plan. We’re just here to chat and have fun and meet some amazing people. So in order to actually get us started, I have one question that I’m going to start with because it’s a silly question and silly questions are always fun, at least I think so.

Joe Kaufeld:

So this is actually a question for the directors, so Matt and Sarah, if she’s here. But in the movie, I’ve seen this more than is arguably necessary to see this. I’ve seen this somewhere between seven and 10 times now. And when talking about the original meeting with AT&T, Mike talks about the stretch limo that won’t fit into the parking lot. And while he’s talking about that, we immediately cut to what appears to be a drone shot of a limousine attempting to get into the parking lot. But my question here is that the drone shot appears to be a VHS effect over it. And none of the other extra footage that was shot has this extra effect on it. So I’m curious as to why we took that approach, because it stands out to me every time.

Matt Maude:

Are you calling us a liar? Are you calling us liars?

Joe Kaufeld:

If you want to tell me it’s official nineties production footage then-

Matt Maude:

General Magic, they had helicopters. You won’t believe the things they were building back then. So yeah, we were just really lucky to have that footage literally fall out of the sky into our hands. And that’s what I’m going to say about it. Can I just ask quickly, Kyle Thomas, show me what was in your hand before? What were you bearing? Were you holding a poster? Oh, it’s a DVD. It’s an actual DVD of General Magic. Wow. I’ve not even seen a physical DVD. That is amazing. Thank you. I was wondering what you were holding, but that’s amazing.

Kyle Thomas:

Yeah, so I picked it up from my local library. So it’s an actual copy.

Matt Maude:

Our DVD is in a library. That’s amazing.

Michael Stern:

Matt, I have a whole box full you’re welcome to-

Matt Maude:

You have physical DVDs, that’s amazing. That’s so cool. I just also wanted to say hello to everybody. Thank you too for people that are coming in with their faces. Jackson, loving what you’re eating buddy. Paola, you’ve got the best digital backdrop that I’ve seen, it looks particularly festive. And then Kevin Clark, I want to live in your apartment buddy. You’ve got real life ferns. Pete has actually got some digital ferns. You’ve got a fern back there, so I’m into it. Thank you very much for all joining us. And that’s the end of my answer to your question, Joe.

Joe Kaufeld:

I’ll take it. I’ll take it. Alrighty-

Matt Maude:

Sarah, do you want to add on to that, or are you okay with me just being belligerent and angry?

Sarah Kerruish:

I have just two words, fake news.

Joe Kaufeld:

Welcome Sarah, thank you so much for joining us.

Sarah Kerruish:

My pleasure. Delighted to be here.

Joe Kaufeld:

Alrighty. So, we don’t have any questions right now, but if anybody has one, you’re welcome to fire away or use the channel. In the meantime though, I do actually have another question. And now that we actually have everybody, this is for everyone, but one of the things that I see from students every time we show this, because as I’ve mentioned before, we show this film now for every quarter four. And then we have a nice discussion period for it afterwards. And the reason we do this is so that we can get people’s immediate responses of, they just came out of the film, and what do they think? What is foremost on their mind? And the things I hear more often than not, if we have to distill it down, distill the experience of the film down into a single word, I hear most often, wow, incredible, inspirational, and amazing.

Joe Kaufeld:

So if we have to distill the experience of General Magic, of the film, just in general, down to a single word for each of you, what would you say that single word is, and potentially why? So have fun with that.

Matt Maude:

Mike, please go first. I only got one word emails back from Mike most of the time, so this is going to be super easy. Never ask a legal counsel for a long email.

Sarah Kerruish:

I thought that was just me. I feel a whole lot better that you’ve told me that, Matt.

Matt Maude:

You’re muted, Mike. You’re muted. You’re on mute. Come on.

Sarah Kerruish:

Matt clearly hasn’t had much time out of the house.

Michael Stern:

Yeah, right. Okay. Well Matt usually just gets an emoji. I’m scarce on words with him. I don’t know, how about rebirth?

Joe Kaufeld:

I’ll take it.

Matt Maude:

Dee Gardetti, is your mic working?

Dee Gardetti:

Yes, it is now.

Matt Maude:

Yes.

Dee Gardetti:

I would say life-changing.

Joe Kaufeld:

We’ll keep the dash, I like that. Kerruish?

Sarah Kerruish:

I have to ask Dee first, do you have a new puppy?

Dee Gardetti:

No, this is Ruby. She was just crying behind me. This is the cutest dog in the world and the dumbest dog in the world. That’s [inaudible 00:07:18].

Matt Maude:

I would definitely say dumbest first.

Dee Gardetti:

Anyway, she was crying, that’s why I picked her up.

Matt Maude:

Oh, okay. Yeah.

Sarah Kerruish:

I guess my word would be possibility. [inaudible 00:07:33].

Matt Maude:

I don’t have one word. It’s more a question of is it over yet? Yeah.

Joe Kaufeld:

That’s four, that doesn’t count.

Matt Maude:

Yeah. Sorry. I mean, I said this when we premiered the film and I don’t think it’s any less true now after releasing the film is, it’s not enough to love the thing that you’re making, you have to love the people that you’re making it with. And that makes anything that is difficult, always just a joy. So it makes the stress enjoyable, because you’re doing it with people that will constantly have your back and you’ll have theirs. So I think anything that you do where you get to work with friends that become your family, or strangers that become your closest friends is a great thing. So whatever that is in one word, that.

Sarah Kerruish:

Gratitude, I think is your word, that you’re grateful-

Matt Maude:

Okay. I’ll go with gratitude. Let’s go with that.

Joe Kaufeld:

That’s great. That’s absolutely great. Mr. Kyle, you had a question. If you can, go ahead and unmute your mic and make sure your camera’s on and feel free to ask.

Kyle Thomas:

Just for Mr. Stern, I heard a question when you were approached about investing in eBay, you made a comment about, “Oh, you’re going to trust people on the internet?” And I just wondered if your perspective about trusting people on the internet has changed since then.

Michael Stern:

Oh, good question. It’s been both strengthened and drastically undermined, simultaneously, right? There are communities that trust, and there are communities that distrust malevolence, false information and all the rest. But Pierre was creating what he called the trust economy, which was that people could transact on the basis of their reputations, and in some sense monetize them. Monetize their reputation for fairness and fair dealing. And I think that’s worked, and e-commerce in some ways has succeeded on that basis. But we’ve also witnessed the rise of the alternative facts here, right? So it’s a very mixed blessing.

Matt Maude:

Michael’s had this great comment that we didn’t include in the film, which was that it’s a frog kissing business, Silicon Valley, not knowing who’s going to be a Prince. And I love that. It’s really cool. Great question, Mr. Thomas.

Joe Kaufeld:

Excellent. Doug, go ahead and unmute, please make sure your camera is on. And go ahead and ask your question.

Douglass:

Hey guys, my name is Doug. I just want to say I really love the film, and it’s really special to me to be a part of this conversation. But my question was as for the directors. I grew up playing games written in HyperCard, and it just shaped the way that I viewed the computer and sparked my interest, so it had an impact on me. And I was just wondering if throughout the process of making the film, you got to understand that a little more, or what was your first interaction with HyperCard like, and if it made any impact on you at all?

Sarah Kerruish:

I think for me, I would just say that it was the gateway for me understanding that Bill is considered a genius. And we didn’t get to work with Bill closely on the making of the film because he invented HyperCard, and because his wife was very sick at the time. But so much of that paradigm and the way that he thought and the way that created have shaped our reality today. So I would just say it was an amazing pleasure at the end of the film when Bill came up on stage, and talked about what General Magic had meant to him. And it was really probably the most touching part of the whole journey. I don’t know if anyone wants to add to that. But I’m also really curious, what do you want to bring into the world? What’s your big dream?

Douglass:

Well, I was a student at Kenzie, and previously I worked on a dairy farm, so I had this transition from farming to learning how to program. And now I’m a software developer at a small company here in Indianapolis. So that’s kinda my MO, and what I’m up to.

Sarah Kerruish:

Excellent. And what do you want to make? What are the things that you dream of actually making?

Douglass:

Well, I would say I want to make a difference, whatever that means. So whatever I make, I want it to have some impact. And currently that’s just fixing bugs in my company’s internal software.

Dee Gardetti:

And that was one of Bill’s biggest things when he started General Magic, was he wanted to make a difference. And I worked for Bill just as he was releasing HyperCard pre General Magic, and I knew nothing about computers. So when he showed me HyperCard, it was just mind blowing to me. And he was always a very special person, the genius he is to make everybody feel as though they weren’t stupid for not knowing what he was doing. And it was so much fun. I just got in, I just started working with him just as he launched HyperCard, and it was just the excitement and the fun. And he used the words, “This is going to change the world.” And it was quite an honor to be there with him when he launched [inaudible 00:13:54].

Matt Maude:

I think I’m really inspired by people that unlock other people’s creativity and means to be able to express themselves and to build things themselves. And you think back to what existed around that time that HyperCard became this huge enabler for other people. It was almost like the designing of Lego, that you suddenly make bricks that other people can start making. And I think that’s really beautiful. Dee, this isn’t as much a story about like technology and stuff, but I think it’s a really interesting story about just seizing an opportunity. Dee can you just tell the story about how you came to work for Bill?

Dee Gardetti:

Oh boy. Really? Okay. So I was out of work, and this is back in 1988 ish and I needed to find a job, and this was before computers, so I bought what was called a mailing list of people that were within 50 miles of where I lived. I got about, I forget, it was probably several thousands of names. I put in the criteria of had to be within 50 miles, and it had to be people that were making over $250,000 a year, because at that time that was a huge amount of money. It still is, but at that time it was really huge. And I made a flyer of all my experience of what I’ve done in my past in work. And I folded it, tri-fold, put a staple on it, got my mailing list and took the names off and mailed it on out to several hundred people. Out of that I got about five responses and one of them was Bill. And I ended up just working exclusively for him. And that was long before computers, and I had to figure out how to get a job.

Sarah Kerruish:

That speaks to something Dee, I think about people who are willing to take risks. And one of the things I want to say to every single person on this call is how incredibly brave you are to take that leap and make those changes, those life… I mean, so many people want to do what you’ve done, and make that fundamental change in how you live your life or what you’re doing, and so few people have the courage to actually do it. So I’m an awe of all of you. It’s not easy. And like Dee said, sometimes you just have to take that leap of faith and how crazy that that would lead you to Bill Atkinson. I mean, it was just-

Dee Gardetti:

I know. And it wasn’t before computers, it was before computers were on everybody’s desks, and I didn’t even have a computer. So I had to just figure out how to get that mailing list.

Sarah Kerruish:

But I think that speaks to a particular universal magic that happens when you do take those risks.

Dee Gardetti:

Exactly. Oh my gosh, it was life-changing for me to meet him.

Matt Maude:

We were talking about it just before this call started. We were talking about confidence, and one of the things that I think Tony did is really inspiring, but it’s also, I think for a lot of people beyond what they would consider being able to do, of just constantly knocking on the door and making a no a yes. That relies on this Supreme self confidence that I think very few people have, but I think everybody has the means to be able to try. And what I love about Dee’s story is that you fucking nailed it. You really went out there and you got a lot, a lot of nos, but of those five, that’s what then set your career for a long time. That was Bill, and then General Magic, and then-

Dee Gardetti:

Everything from General Magic, all my jobs since General Magic were connected to somebody from General Magic. Yeah. So, no, it was truly life-changing. And I mean, it brought me, again, I’ve always thought full circle with the movie and everything, it brought me into your life and Sarah’s life again, and Mike’s life, and created a whole new family for me, which it’s amazing.

Sarah Kerruish:

It was amazing. Are you in Tahoe by the way?

Dee Gardetti:

I am in Tahoe.

Sarah Kerruish:

I’m so jealous.

Matt Maude:

Lockdown sucks, doesn’t it? It’s so terrible. Tell me more about [crosstalk 00:18:36]. Yeah. Sorry. I know that was slightly off topic.

Joe Kaufeld:

No, that’s perfectly fine. We don’t have really a topic, so that’s totally fine. Although when Mike was answering a question earlier, I did notice something. And on the shelf behind you, you’ve got a little bit of General Magic merch, I guess a piece of General Magic history. And that is the little trophy behind you. And I was wondering if you could tell us what that is, because I’ve never seen that before, nor heard of one, and what the story is behind that little trophy.

Michael Stern:

Sure. Let me hold it up. This is called a tombstone. When General Magic went public the investment bankers provided everybody on the team with a laminated image of the ad that ran in the Wall Street Journal to tell the world that we had gone public and at what price. So all of us Magicians who help work on the public offering got one of these. And it’s really cute, isn’t it? You wouldn’t think that Goldman Sachs would have much of a sense of humor, but they did a good job, right? So in that spirit, I had these cubes made. I don’t know if you can see it very well. This was for everybody on the movie team, which it’s a section from our first poster when the movie premiered at Tribeca, and everybody on the crew and cast got one of these. So again, it was in the spirit of going public, but a little bit different.

Joe Kaufeld:

That’s awesome. Thank you so much.

Matt Maude:

I’ve got mine. Just ran downstairs-

Veronica Miles:

I have mine too.

Matt Maude:

Yeah, Dee. Yeah.

Dee Gardetti:

I have mine too but it’s in San Francisco, not in-

Matt Maude:

It’s in my other house. Sorry. When you said trophy, I was just like, “Oh, this is great. Now he’s going to talk about the awards we won.” [crosstalk 00:20:39].

Joe Kaufeld:

But Matt, what awards have you won?

Matt Maude:

Well, just-

Sarah Kerruish:

Well, the most important one was the Napa Valley Film Festival best film thing. And I’m wondering, Mike, where is that giant bottle of wine we won?

Michael Stern:

We got a jeroboam of red, and it’s still sitting in my closet waiting to get drunk, because we never had [crosstalk 00:21:05].

Matt Maude:

Just say that word again.

Michael Stern:

Jeroboam.

Matt Maude:

A jeroboam. Just for those casual wine-

Michael Stern:

I mean, it’s as big as half of me. And I’ll flip it to Italy or something, we’ll see.

Matt Maude:

I mean, if we can get drunk at my wedding that’d be lovely, I’d go for that. It would probably feed the entire wedding party. Oh no, I’m sorry. It’s not a [balbasar 00:21:29] of wine.

Michael Stern:

But it’s big. It’s aging well, but we should do something with it.

Matt Maude:

Drink it.

Sarah Kerruish:

I have a question for everyone on this in this moment together, does anyone have any questions around things they are trying to bring into the world or any advice or tips or that maybe we could provide you with? I’d love to hear. I always love it when people are willing to share their failures, their ideas, the changes they want to make in the world. So I would encourage anyone to dive in and share, because it’s much more interesting that way. And it might take a bit of courage, but it gets super interesting if people are willing to take that risk.

Matt Maude:

The floor is open.

Jackson:

Okay. Can I go?

Matt Maude:

Go ahead.

Sarah Kerruish:

Oh, thank you.

Jackson:

All right. First of all, hi, my name’s Jack. It’s a huge-

Sarah Kerruish:

How was the burger Jack?

Jackson:

It was pretty good.

Matt Maude:

Was it good? Okay.

Jackson:

Yeah. Five guys, burgers and fries, good stuff. Glad we got the important stuff out of the way. Sorry, no. Just kidding. So I actually posted a question in our Slack channel, but I was going to ask something similar. What tips do you have for turning your ambition into actual professional projects, and then completing and marketing them? I don’t know.

Sarah Kerruish:

Okay. Yeah. Well, I’ll start with the first thing. Maybe we can do a round robin. I’ll start with the first thing. I think that if you’re a creative entrepreneur, which I suspect you are because of the decisions you’ve already made, then I think you need… You’ll have lots of ideas. And I think it’s really important to understand which idea. And I think there are certain characteristics to the idea that have to be made. It’s like, for me I have lots of ideas about films, but some of them actually demand to be made. And I think it has to align with your passion. So my number one tip is if you want to bring something into the world, you have to think about it, dream about it, and it has to really keep tugging at you. And those are the ideas that are worth pursuing. So I think it starts there. And with that, I’m going to hand over to Mike for tip number two.

Matt Maude:

Mute, Mike. Mute, mute, mute, unmute.

Michael Stern:

Yeah. Don’t wait as long as we did to get to market. Shift something soon, something early and then work with your customers and your users to refine it. Don’t don’t wait to perfect it, get it out there.

Sarah Kerruish:

Excellent. Dee.

Dee Gardetti:

I would say document, document, document everything that you can, because, boy, it came around for this film. And during all the times that people were filming at General Magic, people like me were going, “Why are we doing this? Why is everybody walking around with the camera?” And all of that. It was if you want to really show your history of how you started a company and the process of the company, and hopefully it’s a huge success, but if it isn’t, then you will have it all documented. It was an enormous amount of fun to go back and really find that all of that stuff that went into the film.

Sarah Kerruish:

I have to say that one of the greatest pleasures of making the film, and Matt I’m sure will share this view, is that when we used to show Dee cuts, it was the most satisfying thing because she would always cry. And we used to sit in this lurid fashion watching her cry [inaudible 00:25:08].

Dee Gardetti:

Mean.

Matt Maude:

That sounds mean though. Sounds creepy and a bit mean like, “Yes. Cry Dee. Cry”

Sarah Kerruish:

It wasn’t that. It was that it was so wonderful to see someone who cared so deeply about the story. That meant a lot to me. I mean, you were my number one audience temperature check. If you liked it and it meant something to you, then I knew we were onto something. But actually I have another question for Dee before we move on.

Matt Maude:

Hey, I didn’t get my tip. [crosstalk 00:25:42].

Sarah Kerruish:

You’ll get your tip, but I wanted Dee to talk about… So Dee, more than anyone I’ve ever worked with, created the most incredible culture. So she ran HR. So I think culture and who you hire is also really important for success. Dee could you talk a little bit about that?

Dee Gardetti:

Well, I always say it was just really easy, because people wanted so badly to work there. It wasn’t as though we had to do a lot of recruiting, we had people hammering at the doors. It was just one of those things that I think was so organic that it happened, and it happened because of everybody at General Magic, because we all were so focused on wanting to make sure that the right people came to the company and we all had the same vision.

Sarah Kerruish:

Modest, but you created an amazing culture. And I know that you played an instrumental role in that. So you must have some tip about how to create culture.

Dee Gardetti:

For me, it was more of a gut feeling of just trusting in the culture of hiring people that would be of the same personalities, the same focus, the same wanting to get a job done, not caring about if we had the greatest desks in the world. And not having a lot of people that were snobby about it. It was just a lot of really down to earth, young, motivated, fun, that didn’t take themselves too seriously people. One gathers another. A lot of the people brought their friends in and that’s how it develops. I think it’s important to pay attention to your gut when you’re hiring people.

Sarah Kerruish:

I think that’s amazing advice. So we also have on the Zoom, Veronica, who’s our impact producer, and who’s been an amazing part of this journey. So Veronica, I know you will also have advice on this, in this regard. And I’m just going to ask you if you would speak to [inaudible 00:27:56].

Dee Gardetti:

Oh, I wasn’t really ready. You mean about building a good team?

Sarah Kerruish:

Or just any advice that relates to bringing an idea into the world? Because you do that all the time, you’re a filmmaker, you’re an impact producer, you know how to do this.

Veronica Miles:

Yeah. And I’ve also had the honor of over the last two years, watching so many talks about the movie General Magic and seeing the Magicians and the filmmakers discuss the lessons from the film and from that time in their lives. And I don’t know. It’s like, I think passion is really there. I think really also working on yourself a lot, working on your own personal stuff, letting go of the things that stand in the way of your own confidence, letting go of imposter syndrome. Really believing in yourself and being really honest with yourself about what’s important. And I’ve noticed that this film really inspires this feeling of wanting to make the world a better place. And I think it’s really fun watching it because you see all these young people who really intended, they really wanted to make our lives easier and better, and they wanted to help us all connect with each other. And I think that our society, especially in America, has really lost a lot of sense of that.

Veronica Miles:

A lot of it’s today about money and success and fame, especially with absorbing so much social media. So getting back at the heart of what are you passionate about? What can you contribute to the world, really believing in your unique… What’s the unique thing you can bring to this earth, because we’re all here for that reason. We’re all here for a specific, unique reason. So just really connecting with that. And I’ve just noticed that too, from just this experience of failure with General Magic and all that stuff is that, the people who were really honest with themselves about that experience of failure and allow themselves to be really vulnerable make them resilient and able to move forward with their lives and all of that. So I think that’s one of the biggest lessons from the movie.

Sarah Kerruish:

So beautiful. Thank you. And last, but definitely not least to wrap it up-

Matt Maude:

I’ve got nothing now. That was all really well done. I think the moral obligation is such a really important point. I think that this is work of meaning. I think I often talk about this and I feel super lefty when I say this, but it’s just is your thing that you’re creating going to contribute to the good of the world? Is it going to have a positive impact? Do you feel like it’s going to solve a problem of what we are facing as a species or as our planet? How do we make it our societies? Is it something that promotes a quality, or is it something that is just profit minded? And I think about that all the time now, and it’s something I didn’t think about as much 10 years ago.

Matt Maude:

And then I think the other thing I’d say is just about, start on something with your friends because there’ll be as passionate about it as you are, but ensure that you hire people that are completely different to you when you start working on it, so that you have lots of diversity of thought, so that people can really question and challenge your assumptions. So that you’re always creating a product that’s intended for an audience rather than just for yourself and for other people that look and sound like you, that’s really important. And I think that was something that General Magic really failed in, that they were just creating products for themselves because they would find it interesting, but they weren’t actually creating a solution for what their audience needed at that time. Yeah.

Sarah Kerruish:

Thank you, Matt. Okay, any other question?

Matt Maude:

That was lovely.

Jackson:

Yeah. Thank you guys so much for sharing all that information. This has been echoed in the chat a lot, but it is a huge privilege and just, it’s amazing to see all you guys here. This is so cool. Oh my gosh, I’m geeking out right now.

Sarah Kerruish:

You cannot imagine the pleasure it is for us to see you and to meet you and to think about what you’re doing. And if there’s anything we can do to spark a little bit more courage or ambition or inspiration with [inaudible 00:32:24]. Because I think it’s the change that Matt speaking about is in your hands. It’s equally a privilege for us to be here with you today.

Dee Gardetti:

Absolutely.

Joe Kaufeld:

So the next question that we actually have is from the only person here who has… Well, the only person on our side who’s actually been to Silicon Valley and worked in Silicon Valley. But I think we just lost him. Chuck, are you still here?

Matt Maude:

No.

Joe Kaufeld:

All right. I will get that question from him and I will shoot it your way via email later, because-

Matt Maude:

Internet.

Joe Kaufeld:

All he said is I have a question on hiring, I don’t know. Okay. Well, in the meantime we have a question that was passed in through an alternate channel. So Mr. Peter, I believe you are up next.

Peter:

Yes. Question for Matt and Sarah. Specifically, what drew you to the story of General Magic, and why did you want to tell that story?

Matt Maude:

Sarah.

Sarah Kerruish:

Yeah, I’ll start with that. I experienced failure of something that I cared a lot about and the results of which was absolutely devastating. And I was in recovery of this experience when I remembered that I had been part of this earlier failure in General Magic. And I thought if I can save anyone from the pain that I’ve just been through, I want to do it. So that’s what inspired me to tell the story. And I’d been at General Magic 20 years earlier, filming with the original crew that Mike was alluding to. So we knew we had footage, we knew we had a hell of a story. And the idea was if we could glean some of those lessons to share with other people who were interested in doing hard things and bringing important things to life, then that would make me really happy if I could make… Because people talk about failure in a way that, “Oh, it’s cute.” And everyone has to go through it. And I would suggest that it’s important and it’s a good learning tool, but ideally you don’t go through it [inaudible 00:34:33] General Magic did or that I did.

Sarah Kerruish:

And that’s my hope, that it will both inspire and prevent you from having to experience that failure. Matt.

Matt Maude:

So my story is nowhere near as interesting as Sarah’s. Yeah, I don’t think Sarah ever pays enough attention to actually like her story within it. So I often try and jump on a trampoline to say it quite loudly. Sarah was part of that team that shot the footage back in 1992. And the film was not possible without that footage and the relationships that Sarah made while working there as the currency that we traded in, in making the film. And Mike and Dee were also within that. Yeah, making a film is ultimately about trust, and you don’t just get trust once you have to keep on building and building and building it. So without that connection and without those deep friendships that have lasted for the best part of 25 years, we wouldn’t be able to make that film because they wouldn’t trust us with their story.

Matt Maude:

I always have to preface what I’m about to say with, you guys are on Zoom. So if you chuck stuff at me, it hits your screen and it damages your computers. So I’m not a technologist and I’m not particularly interested in technology. See that settle with everyone. But there is a lot of stuff that I find fascinating about how technology is made and how it’s perceived across society. So back in 2015, when I started making the film with Sarah and Mike and Dee, Silicon Valley to me appeared as a bastion of optimism, that they were coming up with answers to problems that I felt like we were facing and stuff, and I wanted it to be around that energy and see what that looked like. And I’m not gonna lie, it was depressing being there because you ain’t missing much by going Silicon Valley. It is a area of bungalows and overpriced restaurants. Sorry, Mike, I know you live there. But it wasn’t this glistening citadel of buildings from a David Bowie music video. It was just pretty-

Sarah Kerruish:

There’s no [inaudible 00:36:44] FYI. [crosstalk 00:36:44].

Matt Maude:

Quite a lot of poisonous toxins underneath the ground as well. It is a super strange place. And yeah, unfortunately I described myself as an optimist before and now I describe myself as an angry optimist, because there was also a lot of bad stuff that’s happening there. But, this is something I say all the time, Silicon Valley personifies itself around single people. So you think about the entire success of a company like Facebook, you only ever heard of Mark Zuckerberg. Similarly with Microsoft, Bill Gates. Certainly when Steve Jobs was at Apple. It creates this superhero myth that the entire success of these companies are attributed to just one person, and I’m not sure if that’s particularly inspiring, because I think for a lot of people that puts them off from pursuing their same lofty dreams, because how could we mere mortals try and create the change that they have when they appear like gods?

Matt Maude:

When in reality, it’s actually the works of tens, hundreds of thousands of people that actually create products and make change. And that’s something that we can all believe in. I think General Magic is a story which shows that they are essentially ordinary people, like me and you that are relatable, that you can see that when it hurts they bleed. They are ordinary people that when they were able to do something extra, they became extraordinary, and that’s all of us. That’s every single person that wants to create something, anything that anybody finds concerning in the world, they can actually be a part of that solution. And in making General Magic I wanted to be able just to offer up that just as an inspiration, that if you could see this person being able to create something and you could really feel what they’ve done and how it’s hurt them and how they’ve grown from it, then you too could also potentially go off and create your thing. Or if you’ve failed in the past, failed, then it might be a timing issue.

Matt Maude:

So now that it’s been two years or five months or a decade since you considered it, is it worth to look at that idea again? Because it probably is if you’re still thinking about it. So yeah, changing the world stuff, just the small stuff like that.

Sarah Kerruish:

I would just add too that there was a third musketeer in terms of getting the project off the ground, which is the amazing Michael Stern.

Matt Maude:

Michael Stern.

Sarah Kerruish:

When I first thought like, “Maybe there’s a movie here. And it seems important that we tell it.” Mike was the first person I called. And Mike actually had written a book or at least the beginning of a book, which Mike you’ll have to remind me of the details, but it was picked up by a very major publisher, but then he couldn’t do it because the board shut him down. So I knew he was really interested in the story, and the story wouldn’t have gotten made without Mike as our executive producer, and one of the writers on the film. So Mike, over to you.

Michael Stern:

Thanks. Yeah, no, I got a book deal and a huge advance, and did a treatment. And because I was a lawyer I needed the company’s permission to do it because of confidentiality issues, and the board said no. So we never got to do it. So the story just sat inside me, aching to be told. And Sarah and I met in a bar in London in 2012 and decided that maybe we could do it. And again, without her inspiration, without all of the hard work she had put in 20 years earlier to make that archival footage, there wouldn’t have been the ability to make a movie. But the other thing I wanted to talk about was trust. Matt mentioned that word and so did Sarah. It ramified through what we did. We trusted each other and the Magicians trusted us to handle their story with tact and honesty. And that’s the reason they spoke to us and let us interview them.

Michael Stern:

Mark in particular was very, very wary about being part of this story because he had been devastated by the failure that he had led. And it was Sarah who got him to open up, because he trusted her and eventually was able to speak from his heart about what happened. And that was the way we hired as well. Tony Fidel and I actually interviewed product managers in the lobby of General Magic. We were so short handed and had no interview rooms because the building was too small. We just sat people down on blankets in the lobby. And again, he’s an engineer, I’m a lawyer, right? We trusted each other and we trusted the views of our fellow Magicians, about who was the right person to hire. So your lawyer and your junior engineer are hiring people the trust has to go a long way. And to me, if I had to pick another word, that would have been the word I would have picked.

Matt Maude:

Can I also just also say-

Michael Stern:

[inaudible 00:41:33]. I never heard that.

Matt Maude:

Can I also just quickly, just for everyone that is just thinking like, “A lawyer.” so I love talking about Mike’s life story. So Mike got a college scholarship. Was that college scholarship with American football? Something crazy like that. You played American football. So Mike is blind in one left eye. He’s blind in his left eye, so he can’t see out of one eye and he’s playing American football. And then-

Michael Stern:

It’s easy to run into people if you can’t see them.

Matt Maude:

Good. And then to journalism. Worked for the Washington Post?

Michael Stern:

The Post and the Wall Street Journal. Yeah.

Matt Maude:

You spent nine months in jail for protesting the Vietnam war, lying down on troop train tracks?

Michael Stern:

Yeah.

Sarah Kerruish:

Was it nine months?

Michael Stern:

Not nine months, but long time. It seemed like a long time.

Matt Maude:

And then start to train as a lawyer. And in that law degree spent time as Steve Jobs’s IP lawyer, you might’ve heard of Steve Jobs, he’s a big deal. So Steve Jobs’s IP lawyer, and then he represented the Guardian and the Greenville intercepts against the US government in the Edward Snowden case. Is a big donor to the Barack Obama campaign 2008, 2012. And then what else is it? Oh yeah, is the executive producer of the film. Oh, and he’s also a scholar, like a Dickens scholar. So when people are just like, “Oh, lawyer, boring.” Mike is literally the fucking rock stars of lawyers. I love talking about Mike’s history. It makes me feel cooler for just being around him.

Sarah Kerruish:

And then the beating heart of the entire operation is the amazing Dee Gardetti.

Matt Maude:

So Dee I call [Deesus 00:43:08], because she’s basically like Jesus, but Dee.

Dee Gardetti:

Oh, stop.

Matt Maude:

So this has been lovely, this is great. We should get naked. I mean, we should hang out more. Thanks Amanda, that’s exactly how I felt about that comment as soon as I said it.

Dee Gardetti:

Oh my goodness.

Joe Kaufeld:

That was lovely. Thank you so much for that walkthrough. Sorry, Mike, that you just got railroaded all over there, but that was lovely. That was super cool. I’ve never heard most of that, but that is super, super cool. Next question. The only reason that I’m keeping us going is because we’ve got only 15 minutes left, and then most of our folks have to go off to something else. So we do have a technology-based question from Mr. Chris. So Chris, if you could unmute and make sure your camera’s on, feel free to go ahead.

Chris:

Hi guys. I really want to say thank you for coming to talk to us today. My question though was for the guys that were actually working at General Magic, what was the thought process about going with the touch screen technology, when in the early nineties touch screens weren’t the most popular thing on the planet? If that makes any sense.

Sarah Kerruish:

I think that’s a Mike question. Over to you Mike.

Dee Gardetti:

Definitely a Mike question.

Sarah Kerruish:

[inaudible 00:44:34], right?

Michael Stern:

Well, touchscreens didn’t work very well. And as you saw Megan Smith demonstrating, we had to invent our own to make it work. But the thing about it was Bill and Andy’s original idea was something that was tactile, personal, that it was something you held in your hand and worked with your fingers because that was the most natural and intuitive way to do it. No mouse, no stylus, no anything. It was just you and your hand. And brain to finger, that was the link. So it seems it was the idea from the beginning, was that that was the best way to interact, the most intuitive and the simplest. It turned out to be technically really difficult, especially in that form factor. We patented it. And that patent is still being asserted, believe it or not by Toshiba in the Val. Did that answer your question?

Chris:

Yes, it really does. And thank you so much for clarifying that because I wasn’t able to wrap my head around that one back at the time.

Sarah Kerruish:

Chris, what do you want to do?

Chris:

Well, I’m a software engineer and I do a lot of mobile development especially with Android. And I’ve written a couple of stories and I’ve built a game around the stories that I’ve written, and I’m trying to make that actually happen.

Sarah Kerruish:

What stories do you like to tell?

Chris:

I work a lot with fiction stories, where I get a lot of latitude to create things as I go, so I like to create the world as it is and the story that might not necessarily fit into what realities and bits of physics that we have today on planet earth. So I’d like to create things that go all over the place, if that makes any sense.

Sarah Kerruish:

Yeah, that sounds wonderful.

Matt Maude:

That just sounds amazing, Chris. I think I’m really intrigued too about, so I played a lot of games when I was a kid, and I bought an emergency PlayStation at the beginning of lockdown earlier this year. And I think how games are able to just immerse us so much more in a world than any TV program or film program can do, I think is just incredible. And also it’s an unpirateable form of making money. It’s just absolutely amazing to me. Like Cyberpunk 2077 made profit in the first day that it was released, even though it can’t work on anything lower than a PS5. I think it’s an amazing place to be at the forefront of technology’s story. Wonder, creativity, engineering, it’s so cool.

Matt Maude:

And for me, what I’m really excited about is how film and games and TV will intersect more so that you can watch your story and then play different parts of it, and see how studios will come and connect into that. Because at the moment, we’re beginning to see actors doing it more often, but I think when you really pick up on that, that you can have cross-platform ways of people accessing media, then that’s going to be so rad. I also love your accent, Chris. So just start recording audio books, or just your daily thoughts.

Michael Stern:

Well, here’s a little General Magic history to pick up on what Chris was saying about imagination and some alternative physics. Steve Jarrett, who was a Magician, bought me my first Macintosh, or at least he went with me to buy my first Mac. He was a marketing guy Magic who worked with Pierre [Omidyar 00:48:27]. And we did it so we could play Myst. Does anyone remember Myst? It had the most beautiful graphics and the most immersive storyline involving puzzle solving that there had been up until that time. And of course the real hit of the backstory is that Sarah and Steve got married, and still are.

Sarah Kerruish:

So when I met Steve, who I married [inaudible 00:48:52] I married him, all he did was play Myst. And about halfway through, after about four months I was like, “There’s no way I can spend time with this dude if all he wants to do is play this game. This is so boring.”

Michael Stern:

Myst was written in HyperCard.

Sarah Kerruish:

And it’s still incredibly beautiful. In fact, I think they just released it as a something else, a new form-

Michael Stern:

Yeah. It got re-released even more gorgeous than the original. Yeah.

Sarah Kerruish:

Yeah. So we almost didn’t make it because of that game.

Matt Maude:

I’m loving the Myst love that’s going on in chat right now. Everyone’s like, “Yeah, Myst. Myst. Myst.”

Joe Kaufeld:

I must admit I never did finish Myst. I had to get the little book, the walkthrough. I never actually beat the game, but I tried.

Matt Maude:

Oh, Joe.

Joe Kaufeld:

I know it’s so sad. It’s so sad, we are slightly running out of time. So we have-

Matt Maude:

Aren’t we always?

Joe Kaufeld:

… technically two more questions, but one of them is from you guys. So for our last question from our side, Mr. Marcel you are up, if you can make sure that your camera is on and Mike is unmuted, go ahead.

Marcel:

Thank you guys for being here. And I really love you guys’ energy between all of you. You’re really charismatic and nice, and it’s just a breath of fresh air to hear you guys talk to each other like this.

Matt Maude:

Great question Marcel. Sorry.

Marcel:

See, I love that. See, perfect. My question’s more so for Dee because you touched on this earlier, you had many people knocking at your door at General Magic. How do you decide on who is part of the team? How do you decide on who is a good fit? What qualities are you looking at? Because for me right now I’m applying for jobs. This is Q4 for me, I’m looking for software engineering jobs and I’m trying to hit the ground running as much as I can and apply anywhere and everywhere that interests me. So I’m just looking to see what qualities do you look for?

Matt Maude:

Oh my God, you are asking the best person ever. Dee got my older brother his job. I’m just saying D is amazing. Marcel follow up on this question. I’m just like, off this follow up with Dee.

Sarah Kerruish:

Marcel, where are you physically? Where do you live?

Marcel:

I’m in Indianapolis right now.

Sarah Kerruish:

Okay. All right. Over to Dee. Come on Dee, let’s do it Dee.

Dee Gardetti:

Marcel, and send me your resume and I’ll see what I can do for you. But while you are going on interviews, I say and I feel this by just looking at you, is that it’s important to be your authentic self. What I looked for in people, and I still do even in my friends and every situation, and Mike touched on it earlier, is I have to have a feeling of trust. Do I trust this person to do whatever it is in my life that I’m looking for? And for me I say that’s a gut feeling that I carry with me or it’s intuitive. But for you looking for a job I’d just say, stick with being your authentic self and don’t try to sell something that you’re not because that comes through. And it’s a numbers game especially right now in this world that we’re in right now.

Dee Gardetti:

You might get a lot of nos, because there’s maybe not a lot of jobs out there for what you’re looking for, but just don’t get discouraged and just keep on looking. And don’t settle for a job just because you get offered a job, don’t settle for it. You have to have some passion around it.

Marcel:

I appreciate you saying that, because I’ve been there, I’ve settled for jobs. I was a graphic designer before and I have my rough moments, I have great moments too, but yeah, I’ve had those moments where I’ve had to settle. And really do appreciate your answer.

Dee Gardetti:

Yeah. Good, good. Well, good luck. And I mean, send me your resume.

Marcel:

Oh, I definitely will. Thank you.

Dee Gardetti:

So just my name @gmail.com.

Sarah Kerruish:

I was just to add, I mean, you couldn’t have a better fairy godmother than Dee. But I think graphic design skills, software skills, that my friend is a sweet spot. So hold onto that, because that is just a magical combination of things. And Dee you would hire Marcel, right?

Dee Gardetti:

Oh, absolutely. And I’m serious, because in today’s world of working remotely, you can stay where you are and still work for a company no matter where it is. So you almost have a bigger audience now because of remote working. So don’t limit yourself to just in your area. Just spread your wings and get it out there. And talk to people. Use your network of people, use your network.

Matt Maude:

I’m going to just ask a question of someone on the panel that was just putting in the chat. So Zach, what are we getting nervous about? When we get to the interview stuff, what are we getting nervous about? Let’s talk that through. So when we’re in an interview, what happens when you’re getting nervous? And is that preventing you from doing stuff during that interview? Take me through that.

Zach:

In general, I get nervous just answering questions and stuff like that. Beforehand I know what I want to tell the person interviewing me, but then when I start getting interviewed, that’s when my mind is blank.

Matt Maude:

And how do you best express your thoughts, do you think. Are you someone that speaks, or you’re a writer? When you are saying that you want to put your best self forward, how do you feel like you do that with yourself? Where do you feel the most confident in the expression?

Zach:

Well, in general. I’m like really a quiet person. So I think it’s just a general anxiety setting.

Matt Maude:

So I’ve done quite a few interviews. I got interviewed by Sarah for this job. I think my advice to you is that try and sit down with someone, and this is going to sound weird, but role play the interview. Talk it through with them and think about the questions that they’re going to ask you, and write it down so that you’ve already answered it and keep reading that back. So when they ask you it, you know that it’s coming from a place of confidence, because you’re always going to be nervous. Anybody that says that they’re not nervous going into an interview is a liar or a psychopath. So you’ve just got to be able to come from a place where you know what you want to say, and that’s the most important thing.

Matt Maude:

The next thing that comes after that is you interrogating the shit out of them for the job that you’re about to do, and making sure that they are providing you with what you want from that job. And they are nervous too, because they want to make sure that they’re filling this job with the right person. So make sure that you also have really interesting questions for them to do, so it’s not a one way street because you will be seen as someone that is going to be able to interject ideas and interject other ways of thinking, because in interview you asked really insightful questions. So remember that you’re there to interview them too. It’s not a one-way street.

Zach:

Okay. Thank you.

Matt Maude:

All right.

Sarah Kerruish:

Good luck.

Dee Gardetti:

Yeah. Good luck.

Matt Maude:

But yeah, everybody’s nervous, Zach. Everybody’s all the time nervous. We get better at hiding it, I think.

Sarah Kerruish:

I would also say it’s okay not to hide it and just say, if it’s something you really want and just say, “I just have to say, this is something I really want and I’m nervous.” It’s okay [inaudible 00:57:02].

Veronica Miles:

They’ve all been in the same position you have too, they know what it’s like. And I also left a good breathing exercise in the chat that always helps me when my heart’s beating really fast and I’m anxious. If you take a long breath out, it actually slows your heartbeat down. So if you’re ever feeling nervous, just take three of those or something, that always helps me.

Sarah Kerruish:

Thanks Veronica, that’s amazing. I wish I’d known that years ago.

Veronica Miles:

Yeah. I just learned that, it’s so easy. Long breath out.

Dee Gardetti:

I’m nervous on these chats we’re doing right now. I’m a nervous wreck.

Matt Maude:

Oh yeah. You guys didn’t hear this, I completely bullied Dee into this. I rang her up I was like, “You have to do this. You have to do this. Come on let’s do it. Come on. It’ll be fun. We’ll be dicks the whole time.”

Dee Gardetti:

And it always is, I just get nervous.

Sarah Kerruish:

Yeah. I get nervous too. In fact I’ve got this great trick now with my team where I say, “Oh, we’ve got this opportunity to just speak in front of all of these people. This should be a great experience for you.”

Joe Kaufeld:

Yeah. The joys of public speaking.

Dee Gardetti:

Exactly.

Matt Maude:

I know Veronica has popped in details into the chat. Dee can I pop in your email address into here?

Dee Gardetti:

Sure.

Matt Maude:

I’m going to pop Dee’s email into there. So [crosstalk 00:58:25]. I am on, have you guys have of it’s called Instagram? You may have heard of it. It’s going to-

Sarah Kerruish:

The only way we can get hold of you is by Instagram.

Matt Maude:

That’s pretty much the way I do things now. And it’s weird because I don’t post on there ever. But as you know, Sarah, I’m not good at this stuff. I don’t do the Twitter very well. So I’m going to put the Instagram in here so that people can message me on that and stuff. And then Mike’s just popped his email address into the chat too. He is mds1948@gmail.com. That’s not the year he was born, he just loves that number. It’s his pin code when he goes to the ATM. So if you’re ever next to him, just pop that right in and you get that… If that’s true, Mike, I am really sorry because I have definitely f’ed up. But if it isn’t, it’s a funny joke ish. So yes.

Sarah Kerruish:

If anyone wants to do a practice interview with me, I’m happy to do it. This has been the most fun Q&A I think we’ve ever done. I think you’re all amazing.

Matt Maude:

She doesn’t say that every time, by the way.

Dee Gardetti:

No, she does not.

Matt Maude:

She does not. She just does it on the last one, every time. I’m joking, that’s not true. Joe, you said you have one more question, but you also told me that we have the hardest of stops at your time.

Joe Kaufeld:

Well we technically do have the hardest of stops, but I have also already apologized to the person that they need to go to next.

Matt Maude:

Screw those guys.

Joe Kaufeld:

We do have one last thing, actually from Veronica to us.

Veronica Miles:

Thank you.

Matt Maude:

Is it can we see Paola’s dog?

Veronica Miles:

Anyone who has a dog, we’d love to see the dogs. That is very true. Well, actually, just to riff off of what we were just saying, if you guys liked this movie, please tell your friends, word of mouth has been the only way we’ve gotten the movie really out there. Oh, hi doggy. And the movie you can watch it on Canopy, on iTunes, Amazon, all those places. So if you have a friend that you think would be inspired by it, tell them to check the movie out. We really appreciate it. And we check Twitter all the time, so please keep in touch with us. My question for you-

Sarah Kerruish:

[inaudible 01:00:45].

Veronica Miles:

Oh yes.

Sarah Kerruish:

On IMDB we got really screwed because we had a rough version of the film released, not through us, by somebody else with bad sound. And our IMDB rating went from 9.5 to seven something. So if you want to leave a review on IMDV, we would be so grateful.

Veronica Miles:

Great idea, Sarah, Joe, we got to get the entire Kenzie Academy to help our IMDB ratings to go all the way up.

Joe Kaufeld:

I’ll see what I can do.

Matt Maude:

You said a 10 star review, right? Sarah, not an honest review. Not like the film was good, but that helicopter drone shot of the limo, suspect. Just 10 stars, that’s what we’re looking for.

Veronica Miles:

So, my question for all of you, working with you guys over the past year at Kenzie has been so great for us. It was an experiment in providing this platform for a year of letting you watch the film. Thank you, Joe so much, really cool. And we’re working right now on some ideas on how to expand the educational part of the lessons of General Magic. How can we use this movie to carry on lessons for not only just businesses and corporations, but schools like even high schools and stuff. So what I’d love to hear from everyone, if you want to either put this in the chat or email it to us or tell us on Twitter, we have a discussion guide of questions that you talk about of course, that when you watch the movie, but do you guys have any questions you think are a really good idea to pose for an educational audience or a business audience, basically suggestions of discussion questions around the movie, General Magic.

Veronica Miles:

We would love to hear any ideas around that. And then Joe and I and Matt talked before this about how there’s a question on our discussion guide that should be rewritten that you guys actually did, which I think is fantastic to bring up, which is the question of which Magician did you relate to the most and why? And Joe was sharing with us how that question actually should really be, also if you don’t relate to any Magicians, why is that? And talking about the idea of how much privilege the people who worked at General Magic and in Silicon Valley during that era had. So we would also love any suggestions of questions around that topic and how to rephrase that one. So just let us know if you have any ideas, we really appreciate that, hearing straight from you who are learning from this movie what topics and questions are helpful for you. So thank you in advance.

Matt Maude:

Love your answer to that. Straight off the bat, Jackson. It’s creepy and cool at the same time. Loving it.

Veronica Miles:

That is good.

Jackson:

Thanks. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Sometimes I joke about how I like to do imitations in my free time of voices. So sometimes I’m like, “Oh, this is my one personality and this is the other one.”

Matt Maude:

I’m not allowed to do quite a lot of the accents that I really like doing. Like my wife does not let me be Scottish, which I absolutely hate because I love being Scottish, but she says I sound completely different and she just won’t let me do anywhere. But if I could spend all day being Scottish, I would. So I know what you mean, but maybe less like a whale. Was that a whale that you were doing?

Jackson:

I’m not sure. I think it’s from a meme or something. I don’t know.

Matt Maude:

But you are doing it on purpose.

Jackson:

Yes, I was indeed.

Matt Maude:

I got to get an animal part in there. I got an animal part in this.

Joe Kaufeld:

Congratulations, Matt. All right, it is-

Michael Stern:

I wanted to thank you for having us. This was great. Really enjoyed and hope you did too. Thank you very much.

Joe Kaufeld:

I’m so happy that all of you could come. Legitimately. I’m so happy that all of you could come. Every quarter that we show this movie, every quarter that we do discussions about this movie, we hear over and over how incredibly excited people are to learn about your experiences, and also the feelings they take away from it and impact that it has on how they approach problems and how they approach things. So I know that we have a bunch of alum who have seen this from previous quarters, we have a bunch of current students here. And it means a lot to us that you were able to come. So thank you so much.

Sarah Kerruish:

[crosstalk 01:05:18]. Pleasure and we’re so excited to hear about what you’re doing. So let us know.

Matt Maude:

This is turning into a whole British circle where we just thank each other constantly. Now we just have to just apologize to something and then we can just keep on saying, sorry and thank you until we die, and then you’ll get British passports.

Joe Kaufeld:

Yay.

Matt Maude:

Yay.

Joe Kaufeld:

But on that note, we do need to close it for time. Thank you everybody for coming, I really appreciate it.

Matt Maude:

Thank you. Sorry. Thank you. Sorry. Thank you.

Veronica Miles:

Happy holidays.

Babatunde:

Thanks Joe for putting us all together.

Paola:

Happy new year.

Matt Maude:

Yes. Thank you guys.

Michael Stern:

Thank you.

Alexa Goins

Alexa Goins

Alexa Goins is the Content Marketer at Kenzie Academy. Before she joined the field of higher education marketing, she worked as a journalist and taught English in the South of France. When she’s not writing, you can find her reading non-fiction works, doing embodiment yoga, or planning her next trip to Paris. You can find more of her work at www.alexagoins.com.

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  • Date
    January 11, 2021
  • Posted In
    Inspiration
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